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Sonic
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: NSW
Posts: 967

quote:
Originally posted by Sonic
Excuses....You could also say you are playing for fun and winning doesnt matter but you could have beaten me if you wanted or really actually tried.. that sorta cop out...

and then

quote:
Originally posted by gamemaster
If I played to win, the person in question would never beat me. Like I said though, I don't always play to win. I play to have fun

LOL

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05-07-2002 11:24 PM

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Sonic
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: NSW
Posts: 967

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Fusion
you have to admit that Halo looked crap through the Philips set. I could've driven a bus between the scan-lines and that was connected via RGB wasn't it? Looked more like RF to me.

Yes, I totally agree with you DJ, That was probably one of the worst TV for games I have ever seen, and it was on SCART.. The image looked like absolute shit.

My 80cm Pana Progressive TV kicks arse... Two people who have seen it now have bought one... For gaming its the best. I wouldnt recommend the 68cm version of the Pana though because from the ones have seen look flawed. Bad interlaced gaming image, bad VGA geometry, and the progressive doesnt look half as good as the 80cm , Must be a fault in the smaller tube.

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05-07-2002 11:33 PM

Crippler
Soft Gamer

Registered: Feb 2002
Location:
Posts: 11

If the problem was reported within the 30 day doa period you should have the right to a replacement.

I had one instance with DOA 3 with it freezing on a ending. But after pressing the start button on the controller it would continue on without the need to power down the machine.

Weird

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05-08-2002 12:07 AM

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Wolverine
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 108

quote:

Yes, I totally agree with you DJ, That was probably one of the worst TV for games I have ever seen, and it was on SCART.. The image looked like absolute shit.

Ahh geez the hypocricy in this thread is sickening. Lets straighten something out first folks, the tv your were looking at is a 92cm tube, far larger than anything else you've seen. If you your going to sit 1-2 feet infront of it of course your going to see scan lines, especially on such a large screen. Fact is the larger the screen the more noticable is the poor resolution of SD-TV. On the panasonics and sony you can notice the same sort of effect but it isn't as noticable since they are smaller tubes and you guys never sit 1 foot in front of them.

quote:

My 80cm Pana Progressive TV kicks arse... Two people who have seen it now have bought one... For gaming its the best. I wouldnt recommend the 68cm version of the Pana though because from the ones have seen look flawed. Bad interlaced gaming image, bad VGA geometry, and the progressive doesnt look half as good as the 80cm , Must be a fault in the smaller tube.

I hate to break it to ya, but your tv has geometry problems too, horizontal lines have a bowe in them on the top and bottom. Also the 80cm version has a higher dot pitch the 68cm version, so up close the picture is a lot worse than the 68cm version. Again I think your perception has more to do with the distance and range of viewing. Besides the current range of panasonic hd tv's have been shunned by many on HT forums in australia by people who have been disappointed with the quality of the tube and internal circuity. Unfortunately peoples options for HD compatible sets are very limited and currently only the panasonic sets can accept 480p inputs. So the panasonics are as a good as it's going to get until the other tube manufacters release HD ready sets.

Too much wand waving is going in this thread, is it really necessary for you all guys to brag about who owns who? I think everyone should have a nice warm cup of STFU!

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05-08-2002 12:25 AM

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Sonic
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: NSW
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Yes Wolverine... it did have geomerty problems but after 1 hour of extensive calibration with the service menu they have been ironed out to a point were you have to get a ruler to fault it. Also on the 80cm the geomerty setting stay fixed for each visual mode.. on the 68 if you change one setting it effects all of them.

As far as a HT TV, its not one.. its solely used for games, and for the proce its the best option available. It does VGA for the DC or PC, it does awesome progressive output for X-Box, and hasa great 100hz display for interlaced display games. If I wanted it for HT I would have bought a wide screen projection or projector.... We are talking agmes here.. not HT, thats irrelavent.

Also, yes .. if your playing on an 80cm TV from 10cm's away of course your gonna see some type of artifact .. but as for progressive signal the Pana 80 actually has next to no artifact even at close range. only the VGA mode does. But even that looks superb from normal gaming distance.

The other comment was my 80cm version seems to display PS2 games quite well (ie. interlaced mode games). Where the 68 seems to make them look washed out and colourless.

As for the phillips, I was playing it sitting on the couch which was quite a fair distance.. and it still looked like crap. I will admit it has the best DVD image for films, thats its main focus.. for that task its worth the money, but as for playing games its lacking in the display department.

I took my consoles with me when I tested these TV's on the shop floor and found the 68 lacking ... The 80 was IMO the best value for price you could get. Even the owner of the 68cm Pana once seeing my 80cm was seriously considering asking panasonic to upgrade his TV for him since he liked what he saw

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05-08-2002 12:58 AM

Wolverine
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 108

quote:

Yes Wolverine... it did have geomerty problems but after 1 hour of extensive calibration with the service menu they have been ironed out to a point were you have to get a ruler to fault it. Also on the 80cm the geomerty setting stay fixed for each visual mode.. on the 68 if you change on setting it effects all of them.

The geometry issues are a common problem with the current range of panasonic tubes. I could of sworn though that you said to me that you could fix that bowe problem when I spoted it out to ya. Note to that not all sets are made equal, I've the same model pana tv have different behaviour. The quality among the sets isn't very consistent.

quote:

Also, yes .. if your playing on an 80cm TV from 10cm's away of course your gonna see some type of artifact .. but as for progressive signal the Pana 80 actually has next to no artifact even at close range. only the VGA mode does. But even that looks superb from normal gaming distance.

The dot pitch is noticably larger on the 80cm unit. If you were sitting 1ft away from it all the time the 80cm unit would be bothersome and sore on the eyes. It all depends on your needs and environment. If are using it in your lounge room then the larger dot pitch won't be an issue since you will be viewing the set from around 3m away. If you gonna use the tv in your bedroom and sit close to it the 68cm while being cheaper will also be easier on the eyes. The progressive quality and image on both models is very similar.

quote:

The other comment was my 80cm version seems to display PS2 games quite well (ie. interlaced mode games). Where the 68 seems to make them look washed out and colourless.

The washout and colourless impression you got was probably due to the different contrast/colour and brightness setting on the set. Still all 100hz sets have assorted issues with 50/60hzhz interlaced games. You get syncing and line doubling issues not to mention since the game is being digitially processed you get dithering and colour banding from the 100hz scanning. Unfortanetly there is not one tv available that can handle 50/60hz interlaced games properlly and do progressive scanning. The panasonics are better suited to progressive gaming sources.

quote:

As for the phillips, I was playing it sitting on the couch which was quite a fair distance.. and it still looked like crap. I will admit it has the best DVD image for films I have ever seen but its seriously lacking in the game display department.

Again you comparing apples to oranges, the set is larger, it's a 16x9 set which in itself isn't ideal for gaming. Also the source signal it 50/60hz interlaced and like I mention before progressive digital scanning tv sets don't agree with those games. For using rgb scart you need a 50/60hz scart tv that doesn't do any digital scanning cause it will mess things up. It's like trying to compare the pure progressive input from xbox and then the interlaced source. The progressive source on those tv's come up so much clearer.

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05-08-2002 01:13 AM

msyama
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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 1112

quote:
Originally posted by Wolverine

Unfortanetly there is not one tv available that can handle 50/60hz interlaced games properlly and do progressive scanning. The panasonics are better suited to progressive gaming sources.

The Philips Falconic chip TVs handle these sources pretty damn well...and they motion compensate for the 100hz scanning, and digitize @ 10bpp then scan an interpolated deinterlaced image progressively.

Syama

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05-08-2002 01:18 AM

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Sonic
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: NSW
Posts: 967

quote:
Originally posted by Wolverine
I could of sworn though that you said to me that you could fix that bowe problem when I spoted it out to ya.

yeah, and I did later on.. I didnt really notice it untill you pointed it out.. at that stage I hadnt full played around with the geometry settings then.. I hadnt even touched the DVD geometry since I very rarly watch DVD's. On the Pana you haveto adjust the geomety of very single res seperatly.. the prgressive geometry is a different setting, as is the VGA.

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05-08-2002 01:19 AM

Wolverine
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 108

msyama the problem with those tv's is they are designed to motion compensate and reassemble at interlaced frame from 2 fields that match to make a full. Now for the normal 25fps/30fps tv sources those tv's do a great job at that. Problem is when you have a 50/60fps source which has fields in the frame that don't line up the tv's think it's 3:2 frame source and they get terribly confused. That were you see the line doubling effect and progressive frames with horizontal lines in them. They really don't handle those sources all that gracefully. Note too that from the digital processing of the signal you get that jpeg like dithering on colours which a 50/60hz rgb tv displaying the raw rgb signal doesn't display.

But note too these is really an issue for interlaced sources that don't have any sort crt filtering applied. The field rendered ps2 titles are the worst culprit to this issue.

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05-08-2002 01:24 AM

Wolverine
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Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:

yeah, and I did later on.. I didnt really notice it untill you pointed it out.. at that stage I hadnt full played around with the geometry settings then.. I hadnt even touched the DVD geometry since I very rarly watch DVD's. On the Pana you haveto adjust the geomety of very single res seperatly.. the prgressive geometry is a different setting, as is the VGA.

Thank god for those hidden service menus.

quote:

As far as a HT TV, its not one.. its solely used for games, and for the proce its the best option available. It does VGA for the DC or PC, it does awesome progressive output for X-Box, and hasa great 100hz display for interlaced display games. If I wanted it for HT I would have bought a wide screen projection or projector.... We are talking agmes here.. not HT, thats irrelavent.

The thing is if it weren't for the HD capability of the set you couldn't play games in progressive mode. My comments where in regard to HT people who are usually very picky about things being disappointed in the panasonic range of HD sets. Again it's only early days for HD monitors and hopefully we'll even see sets that can do 720p 1080i properly to take advantage of xbox higher display modes.

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Last edited by Wolverine on 05-08-2002 at 01:43 AM

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05-08-2002 01:28 AM

msyama
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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 1112

Does anyone else think 2D Games are virtually unplayable on 100hz sets? Sonic just doesn't get the same sensation of speed he gets on a 60/50hz set. The field duplication really affects it badly.

Syama

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05-08-2002 01:46 AM

Wolverine
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Registered: Oct 2001
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I know how you feel mysama, that's why it's always handy to have an old analog 50/60hz set. 100hz tv's just aren't designed to run older interlaced games properly.

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05-08-2002 01:50 AM

Red Cyclone
Holy Fighter

Registered: Oct 2001
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Posts: 316

OK then Gamemaster, so am I to assume that the only reason Sonic defeats you at CvS 2 is because you let him?

Also if charge characters are so crap, why do you name Heidern (http://gnforums.planet.net.au/showt...21530#post21530) as part of your all-time KOF team, and most importantly if Blanka is such a crap character, why did you have him in your sig for a while a few months ago?

I must be missing something here. You don't play scrubs, yet Sonic is a scrub because he beats you using characters like Blanka and Guile? If I were in that position I'd gain more out of working around his strategies rather than giving out reasons why I'm better than him even though I've lost to him.

I suppose it is just an individual thing. Whenever I play scrubs at fighting games I own them completely (I know it's easy to say on a forum but I've got no reason to lie and I play these games constantly). Personally I find that the scrubs tend to use characters like Akuma or Wolverine more in these types of games.

When it comes down to it in the end, you can call Sonic every name under the sun to get across the point that you think he's an el cheapo scub, but if he keeps beating you, perhaps you need to...scrub..up on your own skills rather than berating Sonic's.

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05-08-2002 01:57 AM

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Wolverine
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Registered: Oct 2001
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Posts: 108

Wolverine a scrub character??? News to me, I'd say a character like Iceman is perfect scrub material. Wolverine is a very combo intensive character, he doesn't have really any cheap special moves which are overpowered.

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05-08-2002 02:17 AM

msyama
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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 1112

Nobody disses Wolverine...thats final. Don't make me get all homicidal on you now.

I think its safe to say, this thread has officially been hijacked.

Syama